Winn Darden:
I am Winn Darden, Business Manager for Lumiflon Fluoropolymer Resins for North America. Welcome to our new podcast series called In the Mix, Choosing the Right Coating Solution, where we'll be discussing with industry experts what influences their decision-making processes when it comes to coatings. We'll delve into how experts develop their strategic planning approach to current structural and future market demands. In this episode, we'll talk with Eric Henn of Eric Henn Murals. Eric is a world-renowned muralist with more than 30 years of experience creating realistic large-scale mirrors around the world. He's painted structures like buildings and storage tanks from New York to LA and as far away as Australia. Eric brings to life murals measuring up to 100,000 square feet, painting while suspended 200 feet in the air. His work is not only visually stunning, but it also imparts a sense of community and connection to the places where his murals are located. AGC is honored that
Eric has chosen Lumiflon base coatings for some of his work. Eric, welcome to the podcast.

Eric Henn:
Thank you.

Winn Darden:
Eric, why don't you give us a brief bio and how you got your start as a muralist?

Eric Henn:
Um, my start, uh, basically was on a small motorcycle tank. I started painting motorcycles, um, in Virginia beach. I was in a bike shop in the Hells Angels owner and I didn't know too much about it. I was in my teens and I'm 19 and he's like, you want to try to paint a tank? I was like, sure, I can paint and I did one and it went to Hells Angel. And then next thing I know up and down the East Coast, I had 20 jobs in a row. So I started painting tanks and then I even did surfboards and I had a lot of buddies that were surfers and stuff. and you know, with surfboards, there's a resin in that too. It's fiberglass resin, but you have to, you know, do the foam and all that. But it gave me lot of confidence and experience with two-part components. So that helped, that helped a lot. Then then transitioning to hydroflon because it's two component and even has a reducer if you want to reduce it and everything. And then there's a lot of times like, I will tell you this story, when I did a project down in Destin, but not the underwater scene, but the beach one, I had fog roll in every evening from the ocean and I had issues so I had to put accelerator. I had to put ratios of accelerator into the paint and I had to cut off at four o'clock every day else flash and you know it's just little things like that that you learn along the way to adapt with the surroundings but once again it comes down to knowledge with conditions and and all of that.And that's where my career started. And I ended up painting quite a few, uh, motorcycles for the Hells Angels. And I did surfboards and t-shirt designs. And that was the beginning of my career and it expanded to large scale water towers and petroleum tanks. So yeah, it went from small to extremely colossal.

Winn Darden:
Wow, okay. What's your training and background as an artist?

Eric Henn:
Um, I am blessed. I, from an early age of having an ability, um, I, uh, basically could always draw or sculpt or whatever. Um, but I never thought I could make a living at it. And I ended up getting a football scholarship and I went to school in West Virginia for two years. I didn't necessarily take art classes, but I basically went for two years, moved to Virginia Beach and did construction. And then I'm pretty self-taught when it comes to all of the big murals, water towers. It's just, it's just kind of like that inner skill that I had that didn't think I could make a living at.

Winn Darden:
Wow, that's really great. I have envy for you. I can't even draw water, so I'm envious of you there. Yeah, yeah, that's a real, that's a real, that is an innate talent, isn't it?

Eric Henn:
I still write sloppy, but I can look at a picture and duplicate it.

Winn Darden:
So let's talk about water tanks specifically. A lot of muralists, of course, are using large block walls as their canvas. You seem to have gone into water tanks and petroleum tanks and industrial structures. How did you get onto this aspect of art?

Eric Henn:
So it was a lucky break and most people wouldn't have thought it was a break, but I did. it was, so I've been doing murals for roughly 36 years and 30 years ago, I got approached by Sicko Petroleum in Corpus Christi, Texas. And they wanted, they seen some work I did in a mall down in that area when I was traveling. I was still living in Virginia Beach and they wanted a hundred foot square logo. And somehow I talked them into doing the whole circumference of this big fire water storage tank in the middle of a refinery, which was 17,000 square feet. Never done anything that large. I did my quick research and went in there and got it done. Yeah, that was my first, uh, that was my first tank. And from there, it got so much positive media that the CEO of the petroleum company asked if I'd be interested in doing 10 more. And I'm sure you could guess my answer. And, and that's how my career started with tanks. And then it evolved into water towers and high aerial work, but that's basically how I got my start.

Winn Darden:
Wow, that's different, isn't it? Tell us about your process. How do you design the murals and how do you apply them and where do you get your ideas for designs?

Eric Henn:
So, it's 50-50 because sometimes I have the client providing me with what they want and I will show a reference to show a rendering from before and then the result so they have confidence. Because a lot of times people, they get nervous when they don't really know the process because I'm the only one up there knowing if I'm making a mistake or not, know, nobody else kind of knows what's going on. And it's a, it's a hard process for like the, you know, specters and, and people that, you know, want to know if things are being applied right. And I take pride in that. And I, I am coined as an artist or really I'm coined when I go somewhere is the logo painter. But what people don't know about me is I am all about longevity. I have tanks that are going on 30 years with paint jobs that had no clear coat and they're still good. There's techniques besides the actual material that you're applying and I pretty much, uh, I push, I push it to the limit with some of that with temperatures and stuff, but I've done all types of tests throughout my career to, uh, to make sure that there's no failure and I don't have any failures on tanks, you know, and that's my biggest, uh, pet peeve, you know, I, I will produce your work, but I'm also going to make sure that it's long lasting and it doesn't fail. So, and I know, you know, a thing or two about the coating and about how it works and about, you know, the erosion and the sun, that so, so I always take that in consideration when it's a design and colors and stuff like that.

Winn Darden:
Right, right. Now do you do all the actual painting yourself? you have contractors that you work with? How does that come about?

Eric Henn:
No, I do all my own base coating except if the client wants to do it prior to my arrival. And I normally do it, for instance, I did a 21 million gallon tank in Nashville and I did all of the paint and it was with two coats it was 190,000 square foot. So I'm not new to rolling a lot of paint and applying a lot of paint. yeah, in the early years I did all my own prep work and base coating and I still do today but there's a lot of
tank builders that will give a finish coat and then the mural or the logo will be applied after that, which I'm fine with. So, so both.

Winn Darden:
Okay. Okay. Are you applying kind of typical industrial type base coats when for your murals?

Eric Henn:
Yeah, I mean, I've used probably throughout the years every product out there and every type of lift out there. But I am a big fan with Tnemec 700 series. Just from being out in the field and using this product, it's to me the top in the market.

Eric Henn:
If it was up to me, I'd work exclusive with that product and then not really. Um, sometimes, you know, I'm not the ones speccing out the project, but in the past years, uh, past 10 years, I have noticed that about 95 % of these towers are being, you know, painted with hydroflon And that's a good thing because it is long lasting and the colors hold. And me as a painter, we're not trying to paint things three coats and we're trying to get some solid coverage and gloss retention. And this product performs. So I'm a big fan of it.

Winn Darden:
Yes. Boy, that's great. Can you give us some examples of key projects? You know, of course, we see the ones that done with Tnemec. And we've seen things like the Destin tank, the Dum Dum tank, and Haribo tank. What others have you done with the hydroflon?

Eric Henn:
My most recent is in Grand Prairie, Texas in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And it's a landmark tank, new construction. It's a hydro column. And it has some very detailed murals. It has three different scenes on it. It's got a horse race scene. It's got a night scene from the epic central, which is a water park in the area. And then it's got a sunset with a lake that's well known in the area, but it's three separate things. And you can see it. You can see the whole thing from the interstate. It's right on the interstate. It's a great location, but that was a really challenging project because of weather. I experienced everything from tornadoes to flooding to hail to snow. I mean, it was everything, high winds. was the best thing I experienced was the eclipse. And so it was during that. But this project was supposed to be a three month project that ended up being a six and a half project. And what it all comes down to is conditions. And all of us painters that use this type of paint, that's all we talk about. We check the weather, we check the humidity and the dew point every morning and we look at where it's going to go. then when those conditions get right is when I can start mixing paint. And I have in the past said, oh, come on, this is not true. And I do a test patch and sure enough, it would flash. And I'm like, wow, somebody knows something about this. So you have to, you know, take that in consideration with all those types of jobs. And sometimes you don't get conditions when you get fogs and stuff until noon or one o'clock and then sometimes you have to cut off at four o'clock or five o'clock and it's hard to get things done and with me I've been privileged enough to be able to mix my own colors on site. I can make any color within minutes. So when I'm doing these murals I'm hundreds of colors like three or four hundreds of different colors with the product.

Winn Darden:
Right.

Eric Henn:
So what I do is get big batches. I make my tones. I look at what image I'm doing and I'll make all the, I'll pre-make all these colors. But what I learned is I will make a small batch, add the hardener in and then, you know, you're limited for so many hours until it sets up. So that's how I figured out how to do these murals have all my colors. I know what colors to grab. Sometimes I'm up there painting with seven colors at the same time, blending them, brushing. It's just the key is to, and I've tried to teach people and just let them know, and I'm open to tell anyone that wants to try this. It's all about timing with the hardener and everything.


Winn Darden:
You do have a limited pot life on these on these things you have to watch out for. Yeah.

Eric Henn:
Yeah, and that's a good thing too. But what I what I also have figured out is, you know, besides the ratios is I can figure out like how much to mix up and how many hours that I'm going to be using this. So there's no waste because it's it's a lot of money. Like if you knock over two cans, that's $800. So it's you know, and I'm not trying to spend other people's money with mistakes.

Winn Darden:
That's right. Yeah, you got to be really careful about all that. How many of these tanks would you do in a year?

Eric Henn:
Yeah.

Eric Henn:
Um, I've done as many as 11 in one year. Um, and that's including logos and I do, um, for a lot of these petroleum companies and it's pretty fun. I do a lot of logos for them besides murals. So I am a logo painter too. Um, but yeah, it varies from six.
to 11 to maybe more. I can tell you this, in the past three years, I've been on the road for 309 days, at average, for the past three years. And pretty much on the road, you know, my entire career. So it's a lot of time, and I'm trying to slow down a little and do more high profile, more scenic type projects and that's pretty much where I'm at with it.

Winn Darden:
Okay, tell us about, you mentioned that in Grand Prairie you're up there during storms and everything. Give us a couple of stories about applying some of the coatings. It must be unusual to be sitting up there a few hundred feet in the air and the wind picks up, I guess.

Eric Henn:
Yeah, you know, I'm up roughly for that project 135 feet. I've been like Destin that was hundred and eighty five foot lift. But when you get winds, what people don't realize it can be 20 mile an hour winds or 15 or even five on the ground every 40 feet you go up add 10 miles per hour. So when you got when it's saying you have 20 mile an hour winds that day or 25 up there it's 35 and 40 mile an hour gusts and you what it does and I tried to work in it before because of press for time and deadlines and everything what it ends up doing is it that wind will pick up and splatter the paint off of your roller or your brush so everything you're painting gets splattered from the wind. Plus you're swaying six feet each direction and you're trying to, you know, paint a straight line, no pun intended. And so, you know, I have done it before where I said, you know, the heck with it, but you don't get much accomplished. it's, it's, it's, um, What's deceiving is everybody thinks, oh, it's raining, okay, you're not going to paint today. And that's true. But they don't realize that the wind is a bigger factor and more often than, you know, rain and all of that. So it's the biggest deterrent.

Winn Darden:
Right.

Winn Darden:
Okay, and you mentioned you try to use fluoropolymers for all of the murals, but you sometimes don't get to. that... so the...

Eric Henn:
I do and I basically follow direction to and you know, like if it's a if it's new construction and I'm working under the tank building. Company, you know, I'm going to use what what's specced out, but there has been projects and I do also I do concrete pre stressed concrete water tanks. You know the ground storage. So that's a whole different thing with the resins and stuff. That's one single component and it's breathable. It's made to have water pass in and out through it. So I'm familiar with all different types of coatings, but as far as for steel structures, that's the best vehicle to use. And with me, Um, and this is another reason I, I choose Tnemec is, um, their colors are so rich in saturation and it's crushed pigment. It, it's, uh, it's like, there's more solids than like a liquid tinting process. And that's what tends to fade. So it's an old sign painters, you know, thing that yellows and reds fade quicker. And that is That is so true. Blues, greens, browns, blacks, know, cold colors last longer. So there's ways of getting more life out of the colors in the paint. And when you're mixing them and not getting them all what we artists call muddy colors, whether like vibrant. But the reason too that I order straight Vibrant the deepest tints is because when I mix paint, I'm not adding pigment. I'm using straight vehicle paint to each other to change my tones and That way there's no You know, the resin is there there's no off chemical stuff so it
It reacts correctly. does what it's supposed to do. It performs. It has high gloss retention and all that. So that's basically my process.

Winn Darden:
Okay. So you, and you blend all of your own colors on site. Is that, that's right? You mentioned that earlier, I think. Okay.

Eric Henn:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've done that from day one and that's also a blessing because I don't, I just see it in my mind and I can look at a picture, I can look at clouds and I can create that color. And there's a lot of little colors that go into it and there's different values and tones, but it's pretty...For me, my oldest daughter, does murals and I taught her kind of the basics with colors and she's had the same little where she can make pretty much any color she wants. long as you have the primaries and a couple like magenta's and purples. If you have those eight colors, you can make any color in the palette of any Fandex. So That kind of helps and that's really key to doing pictorial scenes is all the colors because it takes hundreds of colors and you don't know and you don't see it but you know for instance I'll just give a description like in Grand Prairie with the horses there's 16 different shades of brown in each individual horse that I made and then when I blend them that makes that doubles that so that makes it 32 colors and it just goes on from there and that's just to get their skin tones and that's not even for the jockeys and all that so that's where those colors just it just gets like crazy and what's funny is I have so many colors and I do this kind of as a joke I put numbers on them, but I know what the numbers mean. You know, it's like one to 10 and it's from light to dark. So people always are like, are you painting by numbers? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, think my numbers. So, or I tell people I'm colorblind and that throws them off. So other than that, but I put numbers and that that's basically telling me the value, how deep or dark the tone is. And then it goes to light the, the high, the lower the number, the, the lighter the color, the, so that's how I, that's just my method because I have to keep track. have hundreds of different colors out there. And when I mix them, I keep them in different containers where they're not in the actual paint can, um, unless it's a big area that I'm rolling so many thousands of square feet. So It's that's that part can get confusing but I kind of Just been doing it for so long that it's second nature

Winn Darden:
Right. Now, does the city, we might get back to Grand Prairie, I guess. Does the city, do you, they come to you and they say, want you to paint this water tank. Do they have the idea of putting horses and all that, or is that something you kind of work through them where you might say, what are you looking for type thing? How does that whole process work?

Eric Henn:
So with Grand Prairie, they already had their design and I gave my quote and that's how that one happened. That was, you know, a designer that they had an in-house designer or something like that. But I have done so many concepts myself. And so the process is I design it, send it to them, and they tell me if they love it. If they don't, then it goes back to the drawing board. And it's a process where everyone has to agree. And then once that is chosen, then that's my starting point. And that's how I can figure out a price and gauge how long it's going to take. And another thing that's difficult, I'll give you an example. So Toledo silos, that's the largest mural in the United States. It's 170,000 square feet. I got invited on that job at the tail end after someone else got the bid. So I was the only one that's ever done silos and all of the group there. So I was the only one with experience. So I basically got the one to choose the colors and then choose the quantity of colors from all that square footage. And, you know, I'm talking each individual color. And it's not an easy thing. know, you can, let's say 170,000 square feet and it's blue. Yeah, that's easy. But when you're doing a mural, you got to not have waste and you got to get the, you know, the right color and the right colors to make stuff and mix stuff and then not have extra waste. So that project ended up taking, um, 3,300 gallons of, uh, 1026.

Winn Darden:
Right.

Winn Darden:
Wow.

Eric Henn:
It was concrete silos, but yeah. So there's a lot more to it than just showing up and with your paint. What I think a lot of people don't know is I have painted three aquariums, dozens of murals and aquariums, zoos, theme parks. California did theme parks, but with new roller coasters opening up and stuff. I'm pretty sure they use that on some of the roller coasters even, the steel ones. But I did backdrop murals for that. so besides just towers and petroleum tanks, basically painted on every surface you can imagine. even corrugated asphalt tanks that are 180 degrees with the temp. Like it's crazy that the different things I've painted on, you know, besides powers. So just to add that it's it's kind of and it helps with being well rounded with adhesion and experiencing a brick surface versus a concrete versus steel and and anything else you can think of. Aluminum you have to do etching. So there's a lot of you know in the in the industrial type settings there's just so many different surfaces.

Winn Darden:
Oh yeah, no doubt about that. What are you working on now? mean, new projects with the hydro-glide?

Eric Henn:
Yeah, well, I am going to be using 1028, Tnemec 1028, but I am going to be doing two logos on pre-stressed concrete tanks in Texas. They're short jobs, but then back to back, I have an ExxonMobil project that is two storage Petroleum storage tanks that are 260 foot diameter by 64 high It's it's a monster like and I'm doing two of them with the same wraparound mural so That's gonna be a that's my next big project and that's that's gonna take place this coming month

Winn Darden:
Wow, okay, and that's hydroflon, yeah? Oh no. Okay.

Eric Henn:
No, it isn't. I'm using 1028 on that. But I have projects that I have used those product projects or those products that are long lasting too. And there's keys to how you do it. So, but I mean, I'd love to use, you know, whatever someone can afford, but I'm basically, you know, using a different product for a different situation and that kind of thing.

Winn Darden:
Yeah, and we see the same thing, of course, in our business. get some people are, they buy into the weather ability that the hydroflon and the lumiflon based coatings can give you. Sometimes people don't want to pay the price and you know, the customer's right, right? So.

Eric Henn:
Right.

Eric Henn:
Yeah, so the benefit with the hydroflon 700 series versus any acrylic is when I have to use an acrylic I'm doing multiple base coats just to get a foundation Then do the artwork on top with hydroflon It is so rich in coverage that I do not have to do multiple base coats. I can paint and blend my colors and get the adequate mills that I need. And the color saturation is beyond any dolled down acrylic. So besides all that, your end result is a high gloss, which gives you that gloss retention, which does fight from sun erosion. it's just like when I'm painting something and I never want to paint it again, I feel very confident with this paint because I know it's going to last. if it's done in the right conditions, there's no failure. And it does hold up way longer than water-based coatings. So that's just from field experience. And one thing I'd like to add about the hydrochloric acid is I have pushed it to the limits with extreme temperatures. And I made this discussion with Tnemec and they're not, you know, they're not backing me or anything. But I have did experiments and I've actually done paintings and murals and temperatures that are not really They're kind of frowned upon, but what I've learned through doing this is it's not the temperature has nothing to do with it. It's just the moisture and it's a humidity and dew point. That is the only thing that will affect it, not cold temperatures. If you have a cold, dry temperature, long as that humidity is correct, you're not going to have failure. You're not, you're going to have high gloss. And I've tested that and actually you know, I've done some murals like that. But I will follow any inspector's rules if they want me to, but I'm just saying.

Winn Darden:
Oh yeah.

Eric Henn:
There's a, I don't know what product it is, but there's a system they use on a lot of these tanks and it's, it's called run down or wash something. And basically what it is is this is a chalky surface. It turns chalky. You can't paint on it. You've got to blast it off, but it, it's not like great for, uh, rust and stuff, but it just makes the tank look white all the time. And I don't get it, but it's not long lasting, it's not sensible, but that's what's being used in a lot of these refineries and petroleum tank farms.

Winn Darden:
Yeah, that's true. They tend to use inexpensive coatings and they do a high film build, I think, on these things. And a lot of what they're interested in is the reflectivity, right? They just don't want the tanks to absorb all the heat and everything. So white coating, yeah.

Eric Henn:
Yeah.

Eric Henn:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The admissions is key. And when I have to design and I'm doing a three quarter wrap on both these of a mural on both these tanks, but I have to always use lighter colors and there's there's a there's a ratio of how much coverage because of the emmissions and all of that. So it's a big play.

Winn Darden:
Right, right. Yeah, it is real.

Eric Henn:
It's understandable, I mean, it's for a reason.

I kinda you know what I'm up in the air like 180 feet and I'm kind of in my own world so. But I will tell you. For certain I came up on projects where there's painters ahead of me and. I would see like 10 gallons of the base coat sitting on the ground and then I get up in the air and I get on top of the tank and now I know why there's 10 gallons because they had flashing up there and then I get a phone call, oh Eric by the way can you um can you cover a little bit on the top I think we had some flashing and uh I just laughed myself but All of us that are in the industry and do these coatings, you know, we check everything, but nowadays there's drones. So if, you know, everybody, think everyone has pride in what they do and follows directions. So I'd like to end it like that.

Winn Darden:
Right, right. Yeah, I think the target there would probably be the tanks with the logos on them that people see from the freeway and things like that. Well, Eric, this has been really interesting. It's been enjoyable talking to you about this. We appreciate you using Lumiflon-based coatings, the Hydroflon from Tnemec, and look forward to seeing your work in the future. I'm really fascinated by it.

Eric Henn:
Yeah. Yeah.

Winn Darden:
keep going. Every time I see one of these, just can't believe the detail and the quality of the murals. It's just tremendous, really enjoyable.

. I've seen it with my own eyes. There's paint crews there that are painting for 10 years and then they start over again. And it's insane, but...

Eric Henn:
Well, thank you. I'm a happy camper when I'm up in the air painting with the right product. And I'll tell you, it's the way it performs. I can't really say enough. Just from all my years of field work, it is long lasting. It's really what you want to go with.


Winn Darden:
Yeah, we're happy to hear that.

Eric Henn:
Well, thanks. had fun and yeah, you get a chance to check out new projects. They're coming up. I got quite a few. So I feel very blessed that I can, that I'm, I always say this to people, I'm the lucky one, cause I get to do the fun different projects, like out of the norm. it's fun to, what's fun for me is to do an industrial setting off the interstate where more passerbys see it than any art museum. And a lot of cities are really taking note of the identity of their area and it shows the pride of the area and it shows progress and you know, not, gosh, when I started, the only thing that was going on was hydro blue tanks with black block lettering. And now we got the tank of the year contest and with all these really cool cities are going all out and I think it's really neat. Or like it beats any billboard on the side of the interstate when you see a really cool water tower in my opinion it creates also a lot of people use it as a reference and and yeah, and they, you know, they'll they'll mention it and or they're known for it. And I think that's really, you know, neat and it's evolved. It's evolved in the past decade or two And it's getting better and better. And I love seeing clever ideas that people do on towers. For me, you know, I always like look up in the air and notice towers and stuff like that, because I'm always up there doing them. But just in different areas, it really is like down in Gaffney, they're known for that, the Pechoid and you know, there's celebrities that stop by and get their pictures taken with that. And I had a chance to do that coding from the 1980s original coding. And yeah, there was celebrities like tons of them that get their picture with that. And it was on House of Cards. And so it's neat. And it was also even though it wasn't in Atlanta, but Atlanta housewives, that tower is in their promo. So it's kind of crazy, know, they're noticed and that's neat for me to see.

Winn Darden:
Yeah.

Winn Darden:
Thank you, Eric. I was really, really enjoyed. I look forward to the finished product here.

Eric Henn:
Well, thank you everyone.

Thank You for listening to our podcast, In the Mix. If you enjoyed this episode and you’d like to here more, be sure to subscribe. To catch all the latest from Lumiflon, you can visit our website at Lumiflon USA .com, or follow us on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn @LumiflonUSA. Thanks again, see you next time.