Winn Darden: I am Winn Darden, Business Manager for Lumiflon Fluoropolymer Resins for North America. Welcome to our new podcast series called In the Mix, Choosing the Right Coating Solution, where we'll be discussing with industry experts what influences their decision-making processes when it comes to coatings. We'll delve into how experts develop their strategic planning approach to current structural and future market demands. In this episode, we'll talk with three powder coaters. These are the people who actually apply FEVE fluoropolymer powder coatings to make functional components for architectural and other markets. We'll talk about powder coating application process, including surface preparation, coating application, the importance of quality control. We'll discuss how they view the AMMA 2605 durable powder coating market along with future trends, the importance of coder certification, and their involvement in the coating specification process. We'll review the increasing importance of sustainability in their business and how do they incorporate it into their processes. I'd like to welcome Kevin Maas of Maas Brothers in Livermore, California, Jared Ruggieri of Spectrum Metal Finishing in Youngstown, Ohio, and Jim Hester of Quality Powder Coatings from Carrollton, Texas. I'd also like to welcome Fiona Levin-Smith from IFS Coatings in Gainesville, Texas. IFS supplies the fluoropolymer powder coatings to our customers. I really thank you all for doing the podcast. Jim Hester Absolutely, Jim Hester, QPC Finish in Dallas. We were founded in 1993. Been at the company 21 years this time around. 800,000 square foot facility here in Dallas with customers from Hawaii to London and everywhere in between. So I'm the business development and sales manager for the company and pushing towards with a rifle point towards architectural aluminum. No more shotgunning, not looking for industrial coating, strictly aiming at architectural. Jared Ruggieri I'm Jared Rageri, the national sales manager for Spectrum metal finishing. Spectrum is one of the largest privately held architectural coders in the U S located just outside of Pittsburgh. In my role with Spectrum, I work with glazing contractors, architects, and paint manufacturers in the color and paint selection system selection process to achieve the architect's and owner's vision and goals for a project. Kevin Maas Yeah, I'm Kevin Moss with Moss Brothers Powder Coating. And we've been in business since 1998. And we started small like everybody and grew to the architectural and more. We do anything that people bring into us because everybody's parts are just as important as the next part. If it's a little piece or a big piece. And the architectural side is a whole nother push towards another level and we are constantly pushing to be the best that we can. And it forces us to do the best we can all the time. So we were always pushing for everything, but architectural is a new, we're seeing a trend. There's a lot of outside of building facades and stuff like that, that it's going that way. So yeah, that's why we chose that. Winn Darden Jim, So why did you choose to become a registered applicator? Jim Hester So registered app trending, as Kevin just kind of spoke towards, we've seen this trend, we've seen it for about 10 to 12 years actually. So the way we described it is turning an aircraft carrier is what we're trying to do here. It takes a little bit of time, a little bit of work, a lot of work actually, but we're definitely trending towards architectural powder coating being the norm, we're finally seeing it happen. So that's exactly why I want to become an applicator and a licensed applicator and represent several different companies where I hold licenses to shoot the 2605 powders. Jared Ruggieri Spectrum chose to become a registered applicator for IFS because our core focus has always been the architectural market, as well as the technical support that we receive from the IFS lab. It's a huge benefit for us to be certified by every paint manufacturer, including IFS. It gives us the ability to meet any given specification for market text and OEMs. Kevin Maas You know, it's salesmen's push do a lot of push and when they walk in my shop they suggest that this would be a good fit for you and I don't do anything unless I've got a good salesman, right? So salesmen are half the battle. The product can be good but if you don't have a good salesman it doesn't support that. So we tried a few parts and what really turned me on to it was. The you can't strip it. It doesn't strip. There's nothing that strips this stuff. You start over is what you do and it's bulletproof. So that to me is a peace of mind because my name's on it. And I don't want to put a warranty on something that is with my name on it. If I don't feel a hundred percent and the product is, you know, awesome. So that's why we continue to feel comfortable about. You know, you're educating yourself as you go through your experiences. So that's why we chose. Winn Darden How is a registered applicator different to an everyday or non -registered coater in the market? Kevin Maas Well, you don't really have any parameters. You can do, you walk in with a part and you do whatever behind the scenes and you hand it back and people don't ask questions on how it was done. With the architectural, you have parameters to maintain because your name's on it and it's warranted. So everybody's, IFS is counting on us to do what we say we're gonna do. And without being certified, you don't have to do that. Winn Darden Jared how about you? Jared Ruggieri Builds instant credibility and confidence with our customers. Oftentimes we're approached by OEMs that will only work with registered applicators because they know that we'll have the technical support of the manufacturer should we ever run into problems with an application. Although we don't run into any problems at spectrum. It also upholds us to a higher standard. Both the applicator and paint manufacturer have a reputation to uphold and working together to uphold that reputation is very important for the long-term success of both parties. Winn Darden Jim how about you? Jim Hester smaller facilities that do smaller projects and there's definitely a different level when you step into the architectural world. The expectations from the specification writers to the architects to your reputation to the company you did the pilot you're applying and your company's reputation. It's different standard, different level of intensity and confidence. Absolutely. Winn Darden What coating processes do you follow to ensure the highest levels of coating performance? Jared Ruggieri I think everyone can agree on this on the call, but beneath every great coating performance is a great pretreatment system. Um, paint doesn't do any good if it's not adhering to the surface it was meant to cover. Uh, at Spectrum, we, we run a unique pretreatment. Um, it's we run a seven stage pretreatment as opposed to the typical five stage system. It's unique because we run the material through both a caustic cleaner as well as an acid cleaner on every piece of aluminum that runs through our facility. And what that does is it ensures that the aluminum is free of contaminants. The aluminum then moves on from the cleaning stages to the chrome stage, which applies a conversion coating that will become the adhesion base for the paint that's applied. To ensure consistency during the paint process, we run a fully automated horizontal conveyor powder line with two inline automatic booths. And that gives us the consistency and a little bit of an edge on our powder line versus someone with a booth batch operation. Jim Hester Absolutely five stage horizontal as well. You work with technology, we believe in that, make sure to make sure we're environmentally friendly as far as we can reach. Systems, checks, balances, temperatures, a partnership with a great powder manufacturer with a great quality powder. I jokingly say it's all fun and games till it falls off the building. So that's never gonna happen, let's knock on wood. So we work very hard to make sure that. You know, you have type systems in place to make sure that tanks are perfect and baths are clean and just running correctly and smoothly. It's a well-oiled machine and it works very, very well when it's done correctly. Kevin Maas Well, we do the same thing. The tolerances in your tanks are very important. We have a closed loop system, which we don't have any drains in our tanks. All the water is ran back through an RO system and scrubbed and put back in and rinsed with brand new DI water before it gets the chrome non-chromate sealer on it. And we run a lot of samples. And one color to the next color can change. So as far as the adhesion is the cleaning hands down, but the colors change too. So you might have a setting and we have a booth that has tons of settings. We have tons of automatic guns. But if you don't have a setting to that color, to that job, you're rolling the dice still. whether a part has a bunch of perforations or pockets or Faraday's or all that, you have to figure all that out, too. So there's more to than just cleaning and letting the guns do their thing. I feel better if I've run a sample. And I know that what we produced is solid. Winn Darden Is there anything specific about your approach and how would it differ from other coaters? Jim how about you? Jim Hester This is about application still. We build on throughput. We build on it being done correctly the first time through. Obviously, you want to maximize line density and line speed and temperatures and humidities and different settings because the machine needs to get great throughput and do it correctly. You cannot clip corners. You can't speed it up. So you have to slow it down in architectural. You've got to, you know, temp it up, temp it down. You've got to pay attention. Real close relationship with the manufacturers of the powders and the chemists at those plants, obviously, to make sure that we have pure curves and we stay on point. So it's definitely a partnership. Winn Darden Jared, how about you? Jared Ruggieri Yeah, I think it goes back to our pre-treatment system. Again, we differ from the typical powder-coater, and I think that applies to most of us on this call, that we are applying a pre-treatment that meets and exceeds the Alma 2605 standards. We're applying that to every piece of aluminum that runs through our facility. Whether it's for an Alma 2603, Alma 2604, or an Alma 2605 paint application, the pre-treatment remains the same. We're also going back to the paint system. We're also running a fully automated conveyor as opposed to the booth setup, which allows us to code over 10,000 square feet in a shift on each of our paint lines. It's what allows us to be efficient when we're running these large projects. And we're seeing more and more larger projects going powder. Some of these monumental projects, which I'll talk about later. Winn Darden Kevin, how about your point of view? Kevin Maas Yeah, I would say right there with you know, the process has got to be maintained. It's it has to be there's no corners I try to get everybody involved in my shop and It's important that they all understand why it all the way from hanging the parts if they see something that's not right to when they take them down, that's all the way through if we can catch something before it's done, that saves the customer and it validates why they chose us. Winn Darden What types of architectural products do you powder coat? Jared Ruggieri Yes, absolutely. At Spectrum, we're painting anything from extrusions up to 33 feet long, flat panels, formed panels, perforated panels, column covers and hardware. The end uses range from general industrial to OEM to architectural. An interesting job that we recently powder coated was comprised of massive aluminum perforated panels that were two inches thick and weighed in at over 500 pounds. And those were for a US defense contractor. But it's certainly one of the larger jobs in terms of aluminum size that we've painted. Jim Hester Yeah, I'm huge in ceilings, interior ceilings. I'm huge in pergola, shade system, siding, sopits, wall panels. I can't seem to break the edge on a curtain wall as of yet, but it's not for not trying. But in residential windows, I'm not strong in residential windows, mixed use, but not anything residential, but all commercial. But I'm huge in several different areas, sort of all of my aluminum and all my five stage a lot of interior, a lot of exterior, but again, siding, soffit, the ceiling systems, signage companies. So we're focusing now on windows, curtain wall and some other areas. Kevin Maas Yeah, we've done the same thing, facades, railings, fencing, a lot of exterior building stuff and the jobs kind of come, you don't really have any idea, they're all different. But whether it's a metallic or yellow or every job is different. That's what I've noticed with the architectural stuff. It's just a. It's the new fab. Everybody wants to be different. They have to be different to get their name out there as far as the architects. So if I make them look good, they keep coming back. Winn Darden What type of architectural products do you see being coated with 2605 powders? Jared Ruggieri Yeah, 20, AAMA 2605 is our wheelhouse. That's where the majority of our work lies. We do some OEM work that's outside of O5, a lot of interior stuff that's accessory scopes on the projects, but Alma 2605 has always been our baby. And we use, primarily use 2605 powders to coat aluminum panels, aluminum extrusions for curtain wall systems. And these are primarily on the use of monumental projects. Uh, the projects can include anything from hospitals, stadiums, airports, high rises, convention centers, hotels, offices, and more recently, mixed use flagship developments. Jim Hester Anything without like from the first floor up, you know, the UV protection, it's all about being longevity for UV, strong UV, anywhere with a strong sun, you know, but I generally think the 2604 is viable for the first floor and all the things that you can touch and scratch and sniff on the first floors of the buildings and sculptures and things like that. But definitely the architectural on the high rise buildings has got to remain at the 2605. Kevin Maas Yeah, it's definitely on the outside of the buildings. And people you know, it's when you go outside to 2605, it the powder jumps significantly. So if there's not a reason for it, they don't understand. So you know, they want the warranty. But then you got to ask if you want to pay for the powder. So if it's going outside, they're going to spend the money. And if it's not, then it, you know, that's what we're, it's definitely outside stuff, always outside. Winn Darden Jim, what's the most unusual object you've seen coated in your time? Jim Hester You know, in the architectural world, it's gonna be sculptures. It's gonna be some, you know, artists will take up your whole day and they'll sample you to death. And, but it's fun because they work on two projects a year. So it's very important to them, but we do get to do some crazy, exciting things with artists. As far as industrial coding, we coded the, an 18,000 pound component to a train. once and a 10,000 barrel, 10,000 pound barrel of a cement truck. So that's the two weirdest things I've seen. But in architectural, it's usually sculptures, yeah. Winn Darden Yeah, yeah. Anything famous? Jim Hester I'm on, well, I'm on Mariah Carey's lights. I'm on Richard Branson's windows. I'm on Tiger Woods windows. I've worked with a little man named Warren Buffett on his Nebraska Furniture Mart stores. I've met a lot of people along the way, or at least their assistants, yeah. Winn Darden Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, Kevin, you're in California. What have you coated that's odd. Kevin Maas Boy, anything that'll fit in my oven, you know, one oven or the next. But yeah, we, I've been very fortunate to meet a lot of people, but as far as coding stuff, it's the same. It's, it's the sculptures. It's the, the pieces that they build a thousand of them and they all get riveted together to make some kind of creation. Um, and most of those are from San Francisco or Berkeley or, you know, um, but they're very unique. And for us, we don't get to see finished parts very often. So it's good to see pictures of something that's done when it's put together, because we put our name on it. You know, I did do the airport in Aruba. If you ever go to Aruba, I did all of the candy colors. I mean, of all the places, candy airport, candy red, candy gold, and it's, you know, we were like, ee, boy, I don't know, you know. It's still there, I went about 10 years later, so it's still there. Winn Darden Fluoropolymer, I guess, right? There you go. So that worked. How about you, Jared? Jared Ruggieri Yeah. So I know spectrum has done some pretty cool and unique things over the years. Um, in my time over the past five years, one of the projects that we worked on was the bulletin building in Philadelphia. And the architect was going for the, the bulletin building has glass that has a ceramic frit with letters pulled from the original Philadelphia newspaper. And that's there to make the glass bird safe, which is very cool. And they had the flight, they had imported in from Germany. And then for the aluminum on the exterior facade, there's a massive armature that was painted in a basically like a cherry red, like Kevin was talking about. That was a cherry red off of an automotive color sample that we made into a 2605 by applying a clear coat to it. Um, and so that the reason that was so unique was because it had to be a two coat powder, you know, with the bait, the bright red 2604 base coat or color coat With a 2605 clear coat for the weathering performance. Yeah, exactly. And then we've seen some crazy giant sunshades over the years, as well as a few other interesting pieces of aluminum paint. Winn Darden Okay. Well, Kevin, Jim and Jared, Fiona we thank you so much for joining us on, in the mix. It's always interesting to hear from other people in the value chain and, you know, we, we deal a lot with the manufacturers, but sometimes we don't see the, the coders from our position here. So hopefully this podcast will help not only the people in the powder coating market value chain, but our managers to be able to see what the whole process looks like and get more involved with that and understand where our products are used and how they're used and get a greater appreciation for everybody. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Kevin Maas Awesome. Well, thanks for having us. Jared Ruggieri Thank you. Thank You for listening to our podcast, In the Mix. If you enjoyed this episode and you’d like to here more, be sure to subscribe. To catch all the latest from Lumiflon, you can visit our website at Lumiflon USA .com, or follow us on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn @LumiflonUSA. Thanks again, see you next time.